Category: Cell Phone Talk
As some here may remember, I once wrote a thread in which I was seeking a small computer. I eventually settled on a netbook. I like them for their light weight, small size, and extreme portability. But I still wonder if I can go smaller without sacrificing a keyboard. I decided to look up mobile phones. I was always against this idea, as I believe that a phone should be a phone. More importantly, I was unaware that these phones could use wifi, and thought I would be restricted to my carrier's internet, which could get expensive. Thankfully, I learned that this is not the case.
I have no interest in Ios or Android. This leaves Windows Phone, Windows Mobile, and Symbian. Windows Phone, to my knowledge, is like Windows 8, with live tiles and a metro interface. I hated 8 and 8.1, so that is not an option. But the last two look promising.
Apparently, Code Factory still makes Mobile Speak, though it doesn't appear to be sold on their site. But Maxiaids has it. I heard that Windows Mobile Can also work on small computers that are not phones? But is this true for Mobile Speak?
Dolphin made a screen reader, called Pocket Hal, but it's no longer available on their site. Likewise, Mobile Speak Pocket is no longer sold by Code Factory. But are these for Windows Mobile or Pocket PC devices? If I remember correctly, Windows Mobile came later, so I should probably focus on that..
Now onto Symbian. I didn't realise that this system was even accessible until now, nor that they continued making it until 2012! The only phones that I have ever seen running it were standard ones with a normal telephone keypad, and I don't really need speech for such a phone, especially at such a high price. I heard of Talks, but never paid much attention to it. It appears to still be on the market, though I could only find a demo of it, and o pricing at the Newance site.
Which devices work well with these operating systems and screen readers? I am particularly interested in those with built-in qwerty keyboards and also what the layout of the keys looks like. In other words, is it standard or are there keys in strange places? Do they have usb ports so that I can connect thumb drives and flash drives to them? Can I easily transfer files between my computer and the phone and vise versa using simple copy and paste, and can I work with rtf, txt, doc, and mp3 files? Which programs will I need for basic wordprocessing, internet browsing, listening to mp3s, and for recording audio or video files? Finally, will I have any issues with accessibility?
For the record, I found an article about a phone which runs full Windows 7. It's called the Fujitsu Loox F-07C. But I am not sure if it can be found in America or if it's strictly a Japanese model. If nothing else, at the Blind Tech list, someone recommended two non-phone devices that run full Windows XP and 7. These are the OQO Models 1 and 2 and the Sony VAIO VGN-UX series.
I really think you need to move on and accept android or IOS. Windows mobile is a dead platform at this point. If you want something small and portable you're better off looking at the small windows laptops or a chromebook.
I don't do anything in the cloud, and don't want to have to be online just to use an operating system. Other than the OQO and Sony mentioned at the end of my first post, I have yet to find such a small laptop. So if I go that route, a netbook seems to be my best option and I already have two at the moment.
Android can't fully be used with a keyboard, so that's definitely out of the question. IOS can, but its devices cannot accept regular flash drives and such, and I don't feel like paying exorbitant prices for Apple's hardware, including their own drive and external keyboard. I don't know if VoiceOver is different on IOS from how it is on the Mac, but I grew so frustrated with that experience that I gave my Macbook away.
If anything, I might be willing to try Linux on a small device. But I have never heard of such a thing. If those exist, please let me know. I am especially interested in Sonar.
Back to Windows Mobile and Symbian. Can anyone tell me a bit about how these systems work? What is their overall layout as far as interface, folder structure, etc? Which devices that run one of these systems might interest me?
Here we go yet again. bitch never gives up, does she?
No, dear. You appear to be confused. I am looking for a phone or a subnotebook, not a subhuman like you. If you have nothing nice to say, move on!
Typical
I am in no mood for this sort of nonsense. I came here to discuss phones and operating systems. The creature is on ignore, so I have no idea what it just said, nor do I care. It was on ignore earlier, but I thought it might say something useful relating to the topic. Disagreeing with me is fine, but others who offer insults will fine themselves being ignored as well.
For the civilised people on here, can you offer any advice? If not, that's fine. I will no longer post on this thread, as I have asked all of my general questions.
I just found an excellent article, which, despite its age, is still useful for learning about Mobile Speak and smart phones in general.
http://www.afb.org/afbpress/pub.asp?DocID=aw080403&Mode=Print
Apparently, there is one for Windows Mobile and one for Symbian. More importantly, I learned about a contrast between Windows Mobile and Pocket PC. The latter does not run Pocket Word. That is to be expected, as they are not the same operating system.
They mentioned a program, called Vieka WordPad, but it appears to only work with txt files, and not rtf. Do any other accessible programs exist for this? Unlike many things that I might do on a laptop or netbook, , this one is a must, no matter what device I use.
Along with the review, several links are provided in the article containing phone reviews and explaining the differences between Windows Mobile, Symbian, and Pocket PC. Hopefully, they still work and this older content hasn't been removed.
On the Symbian end of things, I found this article. I was unaware that this os used touch devices. Thankfully, a qwerty one was mentioned. I am wondering if others were made after this was written? Regardless of the phone I use, if I choose Symbian, it seems that 3 is the best option, as it contains many enhancements. But are these mostly geared for touch, and if so, would I be happier with an older version?
http://www.afb.org/afbpress/pub.asp?DocID=aw120407
There was a Symbian Bell, but from the brief description here, it was only available on a limited amount of phones and those were all purely touch-based.
http://www.afb.org/afbpress/pub.asp?DocID=aw130209
This article discusses both Mobile Speak and Talks. But it's still old enough that I want to find a newer evaluation. Hopefully, the issues with Quick Word were resolved in later versions and with phones that possess a qwerty keyboard.
http://www.afb.org/afbpress/pub.asp?DocID=aw080103
At least I now have a somewhat better idea about these systems. I just need to investigate them more and determine which, if any, is right for me.
This one isn't that old at all and four of these phones have keyboards! I could be wrong, but I think all of these run Windows Mobile. Has anyone here used any of these, and if so, what were your experiences with them?
http://www.designbuzz.com/five-best-mobile-phones-for-the-visually-impaired-2/
Someone might want to correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Symbian is now obsolete.
There's windows mobile with narator, but not sure how usible that thing is.
They say Narator has come a long way, but not sure if it's even worth it on the mobile platform.
If it were me, I'd probably lean towards the Surface pro 3 from Microsoft, only problem is it's a bit pricy.
I'd want it to last a few years.
That's the problem with technology, you can never keep up.
Yes, KT Symbian has been gone for at least a couple of years. Getting windows mobile
phone work is a night mair. Although, it has been "talk" that windows mobile 10 will be
better and more accessible and all that stuff.
Chromebook is not stable and accessible just yet.
The phone or device doesn't have to be new. It just has to meet my needs. As for the Surface Pro, I thought that was a tablet, not a regular computer with a built-in keyboard. Plus, does it not run Windows 8.1? If so, I am interested in neither of those.
It sounds like the two of you are confusing Windows Mobile with Windows Phone, unless the former also has Narrator. But I haven't heard it mentioned in any of the reviews that I read.
surface pro is a tablet, with an extra keyboard cover that you can get. How much you
have to spend, what is your budget, if you have under $600, forget about surface pro. If
you are anti touch screen, forget surface pro. Surface pro is running windows 8.1, full
version. Windows mobile phone is for the windows phone, which is currently running
windows8 or 8.1. It is nothing from the normal windows yes. And narator works, but how
well, it is an question. And, most if not all windows phones are touch screen. No buttons
beside the onn and off, and camera, and perhaps volume...
I will add here beeing a Gen1 android users to days android devices are leaving its slider counter parts behind and adopting full touch screens. Look Symbian is dead, windows moble 6.1 dead as well. At this time Tiff you have 3 choices stick with your flip phone until your carier axes it off the network, slowly learn IOS or android. Lastly, please do not come back and tell me your nexus7 attempt was how you figured ou touch screens were not for you. I will just come back and say you never asked me a Gen1 android user one single question off this web sight. So sure your android adventure was a epic fell. I really wonder how your crack at IOS went or do I really want to know.
android was working on a linux option, but again it has a touch screne.
Google Braille to Go notetaker. If it ever actually comes out maybe it will allow you to work like it's 1979 on a modern OS!
To PinaColada. When I say Windows Mobile, I do not mean Windows Phone. I mean the older system.
To starfly. I see no reason why my phone should be axed off the market. It is a GSM phone and that is what TMobile uses. Right now, I'm using something called a Just 5, but I really want to find my Motorola Motofone F3 and install my sim card on there. I really liked that phone.
I specifically chose it and Symbian because they work on non-touch devices, or at least, ones with built-in keyboards. It was actually Linux, and not IOS that I was trying. I want a dedicated computer for it, so that I can install it properly and play with it. Hopefully, this will be an option soon, as I am selling several machines and a Perkins. I am especially interested in Sonar. It
To Damia, this is interesting. Do you know if there are any phones or umpcs with keyboards that run on Linux? If so, which version?
To The Roman Battle Mask. I want this machine! It has everything on it, including a braille display, which was not a requirement! But unfortunately, I know exactly what you mean about it taking forever to be released. I have heard of this device, though I didn't realise it had all of these great features!
http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/technology/braillepda.html?id=VpYyB9AX
Part of my message got scrambled, and while some things should actually change, no one here has yet made it possible for us to edit our posts as you can on every other modern forum. Anyway, the part about choosing these systems due to built-in keyboards was supposed to be part of my first answer, not my second.
ok, I've never used any of the phones but an older website that hasn't updated in ions might help you.
http://www.accessiblephones.com/
personally, I'd go with Nokia if I were going this route. excellent hardware.
yes. Windows Phone 8.exe is different than Windows Mobile.
The good thing here is, even if I ultimately decide to use an external keyboard due to the tiny keys on the built-in one, I will always have that option if the batteries in the external one die, if I forget to bring it, if something happens to it, or if I just want to keep things light and stick the machine in my pocket. This is true with the OQO and Sony umpcs as well, though those run full Windows and have regular usb ports, so I won't need to worry about keyboard batteries dying. Anyway, thanks for the site. I will definitely check it out. *smile*
your welcome.
if you want an older Nokia phone running Talks, ask around on here. people have had them on Garage board here .
I have been extremely preoccupied lately, with personal matters, with politics, particularly the bail-out talks, and with Hellenic history courses. So technology hasn't really been on my mind. But last night, I decided to go to Ebay and see what kinds of Windows Mobile and Symbian phones were available. I found many, at great prices. I learned today that there is a version of Microsoft Office for Windows Mobile, and that Mobile Speak works with it. This means that, in theory, I should be able to work with my rtf and txt files. If that's true, then I am guessing I will need a phone with either a usb port, for my thumb drive, or an sd card slot. How easy is it to transfer files between a phone and a computer running XP? For example, if I create a document in Word or Notes on the phone, can I easily read it on my computer? Contrary to what many have said, I have found that anything I can do on my Thinkpad (or any other full laptop), I can do on my netbook, all-be-it more slowly. Is it like that with these phones or are they really slow and only for occasional use? Is there a limit to the number of programs or windows that I can have open at one time?
I went to the Code Factory page for Mobile Speak.
http://codefactoryglobal.com/app-store/mobile-speak/
When I followed the link that said Mobile Speak, it brought me here
http://symbian.apps.opera.com/en_es/mobile_speak.html?dm=1&multi=1
Apparently, it's the full version, but for only 20 pounds, which is about 40 or so dollars. But it says that I would need to use the voice that comes with my phone and not a third party one. I discovered, when reading the url, that this is for Symbian. Should I get a phone and try it or are the accessibility features better on Windows Mobile? Also, do I need to have someone sighted go to the site with the phone, download it, and install it or is this something that I can do using my computer and/or on my own? The one at Maxiaids is almost $300! Does anyone know where I can find a demo version for Windows Mobile so that I can try it out?
Since I mentioned the Talks demo earlier in this thread, here is that link. But it only works for ten minutes at a time and only with Symbian phones.
http://www.nuance.com/for-individuals/by-solution/talks-zooms/downloads/index.htm
I'm going to accessiblephones.com , to read about various options. But my final dilemma is this. I am currently using TMobile on a family plan, so am limited to using phones that work on their network. This is why, for example, I can't use the Samsung Haven, which seems to be the perfect phone for regular use, as everything speaks. But in this case, I am more interested in the computing capabilities rather than those which make it a phone. If I find one with wifi, then, does it really matter what network it works on? That is, will I still need a sim card in order to use it? If so, I might try Page Plus, as they have decent rates.
The accessible phones site isn't working. The main page loads, but no matter which phone I try, Firefox says "busy" and then all I can read is the url. The pages don't appear to be loading at all, and no matter which feature I try to sort by, it keeps presenting me with the same phones. So I guess I'll need to research each one on its own to determine if I am interested in it.
Also, there now appears to be a MobileSpeak_S60_v5.90(1).sisx file in my downloads folder. I guess it downloaded off of that site, and if I tried to use it, it would ask me for my payment information.
I think I found a way to perhaps learn a bit about these operating systems and compare them!! *smile* I found the manuals for Mobile Speak 4, for Windows Mobile. amd 5 for Symbian! For some odd reason, though they are on the Code Factory site, I couldn't get to them from there, and had to do a Google search. It will be interesting to see where they differ.
Symbian
http://www.codefactory.es/descargas/family_4/ms50_userguide_symbian.html
Windows Mobile
http://www.codefactory.es/descargas/family_4/ms4_manual_wm.html
And a nice overview, though it may be a bit out of date. I'm not sure.
http://www.talknav.com/mobile_speak.php
I also found something very interesting here.
http://www.senderogroup.com/support/mspeaklicense.htm
"The main advantage of this new licensing system is its cross-platform and cross-device capabilities, which allow you to move your license of Mobile Speak, Mobile Magnifier, and other Code Factory products free of charge between supported Symbian phones, Windows Mobile Smartphones and Pocket PCs as many times as you wish, as long as you keep the same phone number."
Does this mean that I could use the .exe file for Windows Mobile, and if I didn't like it, I could remove it, and then install the .sisx version on a Symbian phone? At any rate, I now have a lot to read, and hopefully, things will be clarified as far as systems, phones, etc.
As I read the Mobile Speak manual, I found out that yes, I can use the same license on both Windows Mobile and Symbian devices! This explains why MaxiAids didn't have a combo box for choosing versions, and when I went back to their sales page, it actually explained it!
http://www.maxiaids.com/products/7071/Mobile-Speak-Cell-Phone-Screen-Reader-for-the-Blind-and-Low-Vision.html
While attempting to find reviews of phones, I found this page, which, along with describing the accessibility of some phones without a screen reader (one looks as good as the Haven, but still doesn't work on TMobile), mentioned something called Nokea screen reader, which is basically a free, stripped down version of Mobile Speak, for Symbian phones.
http://livingblindblog.com/2013/10/25/cell-phone-accessibility-a-follow-up-to-why-i-dont-want-an-iphone/
I then found this short review. Note that it's a bit out of date, as the manual states that it works with many more phones than just the four listed here. Apparently, you can also now install free voices as well.
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/features/item/14068_Screen_Reader.php
http://www.codefactory.es/descargas/nsr/Nokia_Screen_Reader_Manual_English.htm
But as with Mobile Speak for Windows Mobile, the download link is not available on the Code Factory website, so I will have to seek it out. I found a version, but it's only for the Bell Symbian phones, which are touch devices.
Ah well. The rest will have to wait until tomorrow or even Thursday, as I may be busy cooking, which I prefer over researching! *smile*
You can use WiFi on anything weather you are connected to the cell network or not.
the Haven an Convoy 2 are Verizon phones I think.
Were going to use assistive technology like it's 1999!
Wi Fi works on anything with it.
The problem you find is mobile.
Apps for mobile platforms upgrade to the latest systems as I've explained.
If you don't upgrade it, soon it doesn't work.
To get the best accessible experience, you'll have to go iPhone, or the latest Samsung S6.
I say the best, meaning less problematic, and trouble free. Easy, in a word.
I understand you want a keyboard, so suggested adding a Bluetooth to these.
The touch screen interaction is minor once setup.
These other systems are dropping, due to the strength of Apple and Samsung products.
The cooking day was rescheduled for tomorrow, so yesterday, I did more research. First, I tried to gain information on the Nokea phones listed in the Mobile Speak manual, by going to the Wikipedia page of the phones and then the various types. Nseries, etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_phone_series
So far, I've read about the Eseries and the Nseries, which seem to be the models with the ost features, though I could be wrong, as I haven't read about the others yet. In any case, the E70, E71, E72, E73, and E90 Communicator look decent. They are not the newest or the fastest, but they all have built-in keyboards, wifi, and external storage. At this point, though, I was getting tired, so decided to just look on Google for reviews of accessible qwerty phones. I tried several phrases, until I found this listing of phones. Most look promising.
http://www.samsungreviews.com/top-5-accessible-smart-phones-for-the-blind/
I then found several excellent reviews and demonstrations, not only of phones, but of several other interesting things as well! The actual site for Blind Cool Podcast no longer works, but the Archive here does. In any case, I am now able to hear both Talks and Mohbile Speak, as well as learn a little bit about some phones.
http://www.blind-geek-zone.net/blindcooltecharchive/?doing_wp_cron=1435211144.0636200904846191406250
I then found this quick listing of phones that work on various networks. It's from 2011, so is one of the newer entries, which is what I am seeking. Plus, it has several listings for TMobile! I will need to research more on each phone.
http://writingweird.blogspot.com/2011/02/weird-writer-on-accessible-cell-phones.html
As for the apps not working, I don't see why that would be the case if they are no longer being developed. I'm not even sure if the Windows Mobile or Symbian stores are still around. If so, then they must still be working on the apps. If not, then it won't be able to upgrade, since the server won't be found. So if that's the case, why would the programs not continue to work? I'm not asking to start an argument, but out of honest curiosity, since i've never used a phone for such things. As for the Samsung S6, is that not an Android device? From what everyone has told me, while you can type on a keyboard with an Android, you can't do everything with it, as you can on an iPhone or iPad. As for working like it's 1999, if I wanted that, I would stick with my Motofone F3, which is perfect for making and receiving calls (I just ordered another one last week), or I would get another that does the same, only with full voice output. My main interest here, as I have said, is in using these as mini computers. I want to get the newest one possible, without sacrificing my goals. I doubt that the truly modern ones can meet these needs, and if Windows Phone is anything like regular Windows 8/8.1, I definitely don't want anything to do with that.
I can explain why apps wouldn't work anymore:
Any app that connects to a third party interface on the web like weather or what have you, gets updates when the API (Application Interface) changes. And these always change for security and other reasons. Even GPS systems have gone through revolutions n the past 5 years, so unless you have all the data self-contained it's probably not going to work. In the mobile world where you want to be connected, you have to be updated. Your apps., that is, because they connect to things on the web.
Imagine you still tried to speak Shakespearean English today. Understandable to some but many it would not be. The mobile landscape has caused this sort of "genetic drift" with apps and Internet interfaces.
I'm sure you're going to find a justification for why you think the way you do, completely disregarding the information I'm putting forth here, so I'm putting this here for anyone who is not ideologically bound to older technology. Anyone who can consider the situation and think critically.
That certainly makes sense for internet apps, and thanks for explaining that. But can I not just go to various mobile sites? For example, instead of using a Facebook app, just go to m.facebook.com? The apps that really interest me are web browser, simple wordprocessor (like Wordpad), music player, audio recorder, calculator, clock or timer, calendar, and video recorder, though the last three are not necessary. I would say document converter or something to extract audio from videos, but I can always do that on a computer with Doxilion and Songr, respectively, and there are also websites for that. I would love to add an ocr app to the list, but I know most phones can't handle that, and the only accessible one for phones that I know of is the KNFB Reader, which is far too expensive for me. I'm not sure if I would need an antivirus or something like CCleaner on a phone. But basically, those are the things I do with a computer.
It depends. Mobile browser technology has changed in the past 5 years or so, and so the way in which a lot of things work or are interpreted has changed. Your mileage may vary and your best bet is to talk to people who actually use that stuff.
The Windows Mobile Browser is based on IE6. That browser is so long out of date it's incompatible with a lot of new mobile interface features of the web.
Oh wow! I didn't know it was that out of date! I will need to look for another browser if I go that route. I know Symbian was last updated in 2012, so that might be a better bet, and at least those phones work on TMobile. I was just hoping to get away with using Windows, so that it would be easier to transfer things between my computers and the phone, etc. I figured the interface would be more familiar. But several of those reviews are for things on Symbian, so I'm not discounting that yet. It can't be as annoying or difficult as Leopard, Snow Leopard, or Jelly Bean.
Just for fun, I decided to try the User Agent Switcher ad-on for Firefox. I had used it seriously in the past, when Youtube, including the mobile site, first became inaccessible for anything more than watching videos. At any rate, this time, I set it to Internet Explorer 6, and so far I haven't run into any problems. I'll kep it this way utnil i find a site that doesn't work. I couldn't ue Youtube, because it says I need to install Flash, which I have and which correctly when it shows up as Firefox. So there is one thing. but it's not a deal breaker, as I can still use my computers for that. Facebook, surprisingly, works correctly, as does GMail and The zone. *smile* I then found a site with all sorts of user agent strings!
http://www.useragentstring.com/pages/Mobile%20Browserlist/
I think I can add them to the Switcher and then try them out, but have never done that. Anyway, they have many for Symbian and a few for Windows Mobile. Of course, all of this is no guarantee that the real versions would work with Talks and Mobile Speak, but it is certainly interesting to see what they can do on today's internet. It's really too bad that they don't have an ad-on for getting rid of the share links, graphics, wiziwigs, and other junk on various sites, etc. as it would make for much better and faster reading. But I didn't see a text browser in that list, as it was just for mobile phones.
Bingo! I found a site that wouldn't work with Internet Explorer 6, though admittedly, it's not one that I visit very often. But when I switched to Firefox, it worked, and I am now able to view that Accessible Phones site via the Way Back Machine and have my questions answered!
http://www.archive.org
So from this list, if I stay with TMobile, the phones that would interest me are the Motorola Q9H, the HTC Vox, , and the T-Mobile Dash, in that order. I'm not sure why the HTC Ozone wasn't on here, as I am fairly certain they said that's a quadband and works on both TMobile and Verizon, but I could be wrong. I was mistaken about the Nokea 70 through 73. Those are all numeric keypad phones, not qwerty. But if I go with such a phone, I can choose ones made even later than those! But my problem would be what kind of keyboard would I use? If bluetooth, then I would need a way to check the battery on it, or I'm not sure how well I would be able to navigate the phone. I could access the menus and whatnot, since they all have real physical keys, but I doubt I could write with one. Still, it's an option. It would not be if, like the modern ones, they were exclusively touchscreen. I could also change my provider, if I find that I can use a better phone with them.
In any case, I now have three Windows Mobile phones to look for on Ebay, and a few Symbian possibilities.
http://web.archive.org/web/20130724162612/http://accessiblephones.com/carriers.php?c=12
Now I can get back to reality, and serious cleaning, organising, cooking, and studying Hellenic language, culture, history, , and current events! *smile*
Even when these speech programs were working, they were not completely accessible to the web or other things that mobile devices could connect to.
Now, that they are not being sold anymore, I don't even think you could get a copy.
In a word, they were limited when new.
Next, you'll find they might not even run on the Android phones you are looking at in T Mobile, because Android has changed as well.
The S6 is Android, but Samsung has really don't some work on the speech program, so now it is good.
It is a totally touchscreen device.
You'd need a keyboard to use it otherwise.
So, there you have it.
None of the phones that I'm looking at are Android. These are all Windows Mobile and Symbian. I think one of the earlier sites in this thread had an Android phone, but I didn't even consider it. As for getting the software, I found both the full version of Mobile Speak (which can run on both Symbian and Windows Mobile), and a limited Symbian version, which only works with the built-in Nokea speech. The first can be found at Maxiaids, for about $295, and the second can be found via a link on the Code Factory Ssie, and costs about $40. That said, thanks for the warning on the accessibility of the web. I will keep that in mind. Still, if I go the Symbian route, I can get the entire package for under $100. If I go the Windows Mobile route, things might be a bit more complicated. It all depends on which one is more accessible and which works better today. I'm not asking for a miracle, just for a small computer that I can carry around with me.
Oh, I forgot to mention Talks. I found a demo of it, but no one appears to be selling the full version. So that one seems out of the question for now.
Even when windows mobile was a thing, it was glitchy. Once you load a screen reader on these devices, you rob them of valuable ram they actually need to run as well as windows mobile managed to run. Even so. Like wayne said, these screen readers were limited at best. They didn't do things like the web well. Even when windows mobile was a thing, it didn't deal with the web well. Half the appeal of the original iPhone was the fact it was capable of really working with the web.
Again, as leo said, the web has changed a lot in the last 5 years. We now have HTML 5, newer versions of CSS and php... You're not going to have a fun experience on any of these devices for that reason. Laggy screenreader, device with no ram... Even mobile webpages are substantially larger in size than they were back then. That's just going to further subtract from your available pool of ram you've got to work with.
Text editing on windows mobile was painful. Its not quick, it doesn't work well. You'll be using SD cards to move things from device to computer, and hoping that everything works.
I remember using windows mobile. I can tell you first hand, that no one liked using windows mobile. they used it because it was either that, or equally as frustrating nokia products. People just didn't abandon these platforms because new toys came along... they threw them out because they are crap.
I'm in the IT field, sort of...still in school, so I probably don't know as much as some here. I'm also not on the "Tiff should get over it" bandwagon, so you'll get no vitriol from me.
With that out of the way:
The only reason to stick with outdated technology is comfort level, and a large component of comfort is resistance to change. I used to love Windows XP and was loath to upgrade to windows 7. When I did, it wasn't a huge leap, and I figured it out. When I got my first cell-phone, it was an iPhone 4S, and the gestures immediately put me off. I stuck with it, though, and while I'm by no means as savvy as some, I tend to get by.
Going forward, I think your best solution would be to get an Android or iDevice, and a Bluetooth keyboard so you can type on it more effectively. If you have used a touch-screen for less than two weeks and have concluded you just can't do it, you're either 1. over 50 and probably have hand/nerve issues in your fingers, 2. very very resistant to or bewildered by the concept of change like this, or 3. not well-supported by others who once upon a time went through the same struggles. Touch screens are only weird until you get used to them.
I'll leave this angle of it for now though, and will get back to the meat-and-potatoes side of it.
Other users have said that much content will be difficult to render, and they're right. That gap is only going to get bigger, because that content continues to evolve while the outdated technology doesn't. It's like deciding to ride a bike forty miles to work every day; sure, you can do it, but if you can bus or take a car, you'll do it in less time. And even that's not a great analogy, but hopefully it hits somewhere close to the mark.
Developers despise having to support outdated technology because when the technology stops evolving, it leaves security breaches. I sometimes do wish that things didn't evolve so fast and so absolutely, but I'm one man, and I can't change the world. Likewise, you're one woman, and there's no way in hell the world will change for you; ergo, you'll have to change instead.
I'm not one of those idiots who thinks they need the newest iteration of every device out there. I'm still using a 4S, and still using IOS 6.something. I'm behind, but I'm deliberately behind. I'm probably going to get a new phone when my contract runs out in October, but I've got to shop the market before then, weigh my options, because I've heard both good things and bad things about more recent IOS versions. That's judicious resistance of change, and even I will give in eventually if the pros outweigh the cons. So far as I can see it, you have a lot stacked against you here.
Also, do you ever intend to get a job, assuming you don't have one already? If you do, and if that job has anything at all to do with technology, companies are going to frown at your lack of current knowledge...and as a blind person, you've already got an impediment there right out of the gate. Again, doesn't mean you have to be current with every little thing, but every small advantage you can hand yourself is of potential use down the road. Empower yourself now so you aren't continually crippled later.
On a final but related note: buying older deprecated technology may cost you a fair amount of money, and for far less functionality than you'd get otherwise. I don't know if you're wealthy, but I suspect not. As such, it might be financially advisable to try and upgrade, rather than trying to use Windows Mobile and Symbian and such. Because yeah, it sorta kinda works...but it's outdated, it has bugs, it's not very quick, it's going to have more and more trouble keeping up, and it's going to put you more and more behind the times. In a world moving forward, you simply cannot keep moving backward, and you can't stand in the same place either.
I'm not so much in the "Eleni should get over it" camp. What bothers me is
she's often appearing to look for information, then link spamming with tons and
tons of links to stuff, but any of us that provide reasonable and rational
responses are met with the sort of push-back that comes from ideology and
feels about older vs. newer, instead of reality. To be honest, no intellectually
honest person who knows anything about that technology could argue against
the fact that the old Nokia devices were some really durable hardware.
However, the mobile web and the mobile technologies themselves were in their
infancy at the time.
The reason you want a phone that accesses the web is because you want to
access the web. So as the web changes, including the mobile web, so do the
devices that stay current with it. Using Firefox in browser compatibility mode to
emulate IE6 is not a fair comparison, since those devices were designed for a
time when sites downloading mobile-specific content didn't expect to consume
more than a few k at a time as web browser cache. If you want people to just
get on board and have warm fuzzies about how you feel, put your topics under
philosophy / religion or something. It's the same thing I resent when people
start corrupting the real sciences with these culturally feely constructs that
aren't sciences. There's humanities for a reason: go do that.
In a topic called 'geeks R us', you're likely to get the pragmatic and rational
responses. You went and used browser compatibility mode with a desktop
computer, which after doing as much research as you say you've done over the
years, you should know is absolutely not a fair comparison. Desktop computers
haven't had so little ram and nonvolatile storage space in a long time. Mobile
technology like you want to use was in its infancy then. The RAM needed to
download pages served as mobile was far less than it is now. Mobile web pages
now take as much cache and storage space as any other page does. It's just
served in a different way for screen real estate and functionality of the device.
If you're not going to listen to reason, go put your topics under something soft
like humanities / philosophy / religion topics or something. Because in the real
world of the applied sciences, it's impossible to make 128MB of volatile RAM
manage a device that is supposed to load and process a modern web page in
the same fashion as they once did. You cannot escape practical reality when
dealing with technology. Your faith-based idea that you can make it work has
worked out so well for you in the past, hasn't it? anybody who thinks I'm being
harsh should just look back on all her topics. Start a topic, then respond to her
own topic a dozen times, then handle a reasoned response with yet more
rhetoric or skirting the issues presented by practical reality. Seriously, you've
never seen us diminish anything that was a reality with that technology, like the
exceptional battery capacity and durability of Nokia devices. However, no matter
how you feel, no matter how many participation awards we give out, it's simply
impossible to change the principles behind the constraints of these devices.
Agreed, for its day, the e71 Was amazing. I really wanted one of those phones, both for the fit and finish, as well as the hardware quality.
I didn't intend to come across as telling you to forgo old technology because its old. As leo said, I was simply trying to be practical, based on my real world experience using windows mobile, and seeing people struggle with some aspects of using simbion effectively in an access context.
Well, when it was all we had, it was all we had.
But as Leo pointed out, and I a few post back, on a technical footing, and this is what we're dealing with, these platforms simply won't work anymore.
They weren't all that good new, but were all we had, so you can't expect them to be like a portable computer now.
They weren't that when new. Smile.
If you want a small computer, Linovo has one actually.
It has 2GB memory, about 128 SSD drive, and it is the size of a USB stick.
It runs Windows 8.1 now, but in a few weeks, can run Windows 10.
No, you can't put Windows 7 on it.
This bad boy can be connected to a monitor, or TV with HDMI, and requires a Bluetooth keyboard for typing.
It won't be a screamer, but it's small.
It cost 130.
You can surf the web, play some music, and whatever you could with a netbook or lower powered laptop that has 2GB memory.
I forgot.
People that didn't like 8.1 will love Windows 10.
The upgrade will be free as well for this computer.
Thank you, 570RMW1N6. It's good to hear from someone who actually used these devices. I didn't realise that these devices were so incredibly slow, though the low ram should have been an indication. I thought they simply didn't need as much because they were mobile devices. I guess they were just meant for checking the occasional e-mail or news story when someone was out. I also had no idea that the editing functions would be so slow. I thought those, at least, would work well, since editing an rtf or a text document doesn't require you to go online, etc. Even the computer with the lowest amount of ram and the worst processor (XP on a Pentium II with 256mb of ram) could handle that!
Shepherdwolf, I am a die hard XP user, but even I have to admit that Windows 7 is tolerable and not difficult to use. It just annoys me in several instances, particularly in its 64bit version. I am 31, I have sensitive fingers so have no issues with braille and the like, , and though my parents don't really understand technology, they want what's best for me. actually had my Nexus 7 for a few months before I gave up on it. I don't mind a touchscreen if, for example, it's used for orientation. If I was reading a map and could touch the various lines, that would be fine, or if I wanted to understand exactly where things are on a screen, it would help to use one. But when I use a computer, I never think of such things. I just want to accomplish my goal, and it's a lot easier and quicker to do that with real keys than with gestures. If I did get a job, instead of working from home or for myself, I doubt it would have anything to do with technology. So this is for my personal life. I'm not wealthy, but I can afford a phone or a computer if I really need it. To be fair, though, I will not spend over $350 on any of it, and ideally, would like to spend les than $250.
LeoGuardian, I post the links because I have been accused in the past of asking questions without doing research. I want people to see that I'm actually putting effort into learning, not merely asking on here and expecting all the answers to come to me. Otherwise, I wouldn't post anything like that. Some of you here, particularly those who have worked with this technology, have helped me. But there is a difference between what they're doing and just saying "get an Android", or "get an iPhone", or even "that technology is old, and you would be better off with something newer." The last few posters have actually explained why these devices won't work, and it now makes far more sense to me. I know that the emulation wasn't the best, but I wanted to get att least a feel for which sites would still work and which would not. I also tried it on my netbook, which has an N450 processor and 1gb of ram, instead of my lightning fast Thinkpad X60, with a dual core processor and 4gb of ram.b
forereel, you're right. I was, and still am, looking for a truly portable computer. I thought that perhaps, a phone was the answer, but it appears I was wrong. I was really excited about the Lenovo, until I learned what operating system it used! XP could handle 2gb of ram, but to try it on 7, let alone 8.1, is a nightmare. I've done both, and as I said, I refuse to go above 7, , unless 10 completely amazes me with some major changes, which I doubt it will. Still, this isn't the first time that someone has said that those who hated 8 will love 10. Why is that?
Anyway, it seems that I won't be satisfied unless I save up money and have a custom machine made or perhaps buy a device specifically designed for the blind. I never thought that looking for a portable computer with a real keyboard and decent operating system would be so difficult! In the meantime, I guess I'll either get a newer netbook, or get another real laptop, in the form of another Thinkpad, if I ever need to upgrade from my X60, which is still working.
10 is a combination of 7 and 8, but the working parts are similar to 7.
Has a start, and such things people were missing.
2 GB works well on 8.1.
You had or have a Assus, and it should have worked well.
Not fast, but decently.
For a phone made just for the blind, consider the Odin. I don't know much
about it, but it's available and does "dumb phone" things, contacts, texting,
stuff like that.
I don't think it works on TMobile, which is why I didn't get the Haven and the other two phones mentioned in one of the reviews. It's a shame, because all three read everything out, and by now, I am guessing that they're not that expensive. The Motofone F3 has some speech output, but not to that degree. I bought it again because of its excellent battery life and incredible durability.
You know, my 4s gets a ton of uptime per battery cycle. I can talk steadily on it for over five hours without a hitch, and that's more than enough, because if I'm out someplace I'm very unlikely to be out of range of a power source for that long while I need the phone. I think "OMG ultra-long battery life!" on a phone is sometimes a bit overhyped. Maybe that's just me.
You can definitely extend its life by periodically going into the app switcher in order to disable applications that you aren't using, and aren't planning to use. Unlike some other devices, iPhones in particular don't actually close a program you stop using, they just sort of minimize it, shove it out of the way, and I've never much cared for that. It's something some users don't know till they're told - I didn't, in fact - and it will drastically increase the number of times you have to charge.
Also, I've used Windows 8.1 pretty extensively. 8 might be worse, but 8.1 is not bad. The search bar works basically the same way it did in windows 7, and although the start menu, as such, doesn't exist, you hardly need it. Hit your windows key, type in the program or file name or folder you want, and bang! you're in. Quite quick, actually. Also, narrator for windows 8.1 is actually pretty tolerable. Still not good with the internet. I would strongly consider not refusing an upgrade at some point in the future; I know of another user on another site who swears by XP, and it gives people (developers especially) fits when he expects them to continue to support his old OS. Sorry, not gonna happen.
Sorry, just more comments from the peanut gallery. You'll do as you like, of course. Leo's got the right of it though.
On a more serious note, Mobile providers will be converting their 2g and 3g networks over to lTE in the next 5 years. As more and more people start using more and more data on the networks, they will need all the spectrum they can get.
Like it or not. You are eventually going to need some kind of basic, if not advanced LTE phone in the next 5 to 10 years.
The phone you talk about Leo is basic. No internet.
As to the iPhone Shep.
Press the home button twice quickly, and you can close running apps all the way.
You swipe up on them.
I have a bettery case, so when away for long periods, if I need power, I press the button, and get 100% charge again.
I actually wrote this last night, but the site was down so I couldn't post it. As for 3g, will that also effect my Motorola Motofone F3? That doesn't say anything about 2g, 3g, LTE, etc. only GSM. It doesn't go on the internet either. At any rate, here is my latest update.
======
I just found this page, from 18 May, 2015.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/top-10-crowd-funded-pcs-how-steve-jobs-heirs-are-building-the-next-great-computerreat-computer/
Several small computers are discussed here, but this one seemed very interesting. "Tango is a Windows PC (either Windows 7 or 8.1) that fits in your pocket, yet somehow still manages to pack an AMD A6-5200 quad-core processor, anywhere from 2GB to 8GB of RAM, and a solid-state drive. It does this by offloading some of the parts -- such as the heatsink, fan, and connectors-- onto its docking station, which transfers a lot of the heat away from the portable PC unit. Tango is already being sold from $349, but the one catch is that it only comes with a trial version of Windows 7, so factor in the price of a Windows license as well. Of course, Tango can also run Linux if you choose."
And maybe XP as well, depending on the drivers. Either way, I am sure that it can run Sonar, Ubuntu, etc., and even if I did get Windows 7, I can find a COA on Ebay for less than the price of the full cd.
I just went to their site and read the following description.
http://www.tangopc.com/productinfo/
"SPECIFICATIONS
Processor
AMD A6-5200 Quad Core 2GHZ 25 watts, with integrated GCN GPU HD8400
Memory
SODIMM DDR3-1600 socket x1 (from 2GB to 8GB). Laptop RAM
Storage
SATA III mSATA SSD Socket x1. (from 32GB to 1 TB or higher)
Operating System
Any laptop PC compatible OS is expected to run on Tango (Windows 7, 8 Pro, Linux flavors, Chromium OS, Unix, etc). Windows 7 and 8 Pro will be certified to run.
PC Size
125mm X 82mm X 13.5mm
DockPort Size
165mm X 130mm X 22mm
DockPort Connectivity
1x DP/HDMI, 3x USB 2.0, 1x USB3.0, RJ45, internal WiFi, Headphone + Mic jack, DC 12V jack
AC Adapter
60W, 110-270V input."
I was so excited that I sought out the purchasing page, and was actually planning on getting it tomorrow! But after seeing this, I think I'll save my money.
http://www.tangopc.com/product/tango-pc-4/
They talk about its small size and light weight, but then, when connected to the docking station, it's 3 lbs. and as big as a small laptop!
"Weight
3 lbs
Dimensions
11 x 8.5 x 4 in
PC Size
125mm x 82mm x 13.5mm
PC Weight
200 gms approx when loaded with RAM and SSD."
It appears that this can't run off the docking station either, so I can't just plug a usb keyboard into it and go on my way. , I would need to keep the computer in the docking station in order to use it. That would be fine if it wasn't so big and heavy. I was expecting a full unit that gains a keyboard and extra features with a docking station, but Basically, I would just have another laptop if I bought this, which is really a shame!
Did you check out the Lenovo?
Doesn't need a docking station, just a keyboard, headset.
Has a small speaker.
Cost 130.
http://www.cnet.com/news/lenovo-unveils-130-pc-on-a-stick/
That is one article.
Lenovo Announces ideacentre Stick 300 Pocket-sized Computer
#48199 - 06/23/15 02:56 PM
Edit post Reply to this post Reply to this post Quick Reply
Lenovo today announced the company's first computer on a stick, the Lenovo ideacentre Stick 300. Designed for consumer usage in the home and on-the-go, the new Lenovo ideacentre Stick 300 is powerful enough for entertainment and web browsing, while affordable enough for existing PC owners to justify owning a second or third mobile PC option. Measuring 3.94" x 1.50" x 0.59", the ideacentre Stick 300 expands the mobile computing experience and options for savvy shoppers and is suitable for use in the home, dorm or office, while simultaneously offering portability and convenience for travelers. Here's more info:
For the wallet friendly starting price of US $129, this plug and play technology can transform almost any HDMI compatible TV or monitor into a fully functioning Windows-based PC. The ideacentre Stick 300 does not look like a traditional computer, but it performs like one once a 2.4GHz wireless keyboard and mouse are added.
Worthy of being crowned the "mini-me" of the traditional desktop PC, the pocket-sized ideacentre Stick 300 measures only 15 mm thin, boasts Intel Atom Processor Z3735F, 2G of memory and 32G of storage. It will initially ship with Windows 8.1 but will be available for a free upgrade to Windows 10 starting on July 29. Fully enabled with WiFi and Bluetooth 4.0, the ideacentre Stick 300 provides the connectivity you need to power up at any time.
The price is great, but this only works on 8 and 10, and I am guessing it doesn't even have usb for connecting my thumb drive, etc. I will read the article and see.
You can't connect your thumb drive to a cellphone.
Just saying.
This has USB ports, so..
Oh, and the other drawback for you might be you'll have to get Jaws 16 latest build for Windows 10.
LTE won't affect a phone that doesn't use data. it's the data network, and LTE is a more efficient one than is 2G, 3G or 4G.
No, but I can use an sd card. They say micro sd, and I'm guessing that's a maller version of the regular. But I am glad that this computer has usb ports. For the record, I am an NVDA user. I haven't had a proper copy of JFW since 4.5, though I played around with a demo of 9 and then a later version, just to see what they were like.
No, actually you can't.
Mobile phones SD format is different from your computers.
On the type phones you are talking, you couldn't take the SD card from your phone, and put it in your computers slot and get the data, or vice versa.
Now, on more modern phones, you can buy a device that allows you to stream concent from an SD card to your phone, but that is an add on.
With some if not all newer Android phones given the proper cable you can use flash drives.
This is true, but she's talking the phones in the subject title.
You couldn't do it, and you can't now.
You can even stream wireless from a flash drive, but again, she'd need an iPhhone, or newer Android.
I forgot Windows phones too, meaning Microsofts devices and tablets.
After reading the explanations here, I had given up on this idea, and was trying to find something else. But yesterday, I received a call from a good friend of mine. He, in turn, introduced me to another friend who has a 2g Dash running Mobile Speak. She seems very honest and down-to-Earth, which I truly respect. I asked her several questions about it, and began with the words given here. When I mentioned the internet, she said that she used it for things like checking her e-mail, for the Zone, and for Pizza Hut, but given that she only started using Facebook last year, she hasn't tried it on there. She agreed that I can't use my thumb drive with it, as it uses a micro usb connection, and I am guessing that, as with iPhones, standard drives won't work because of the power that they require. But she disagreed about the micro sd drive, and said that, with a metal adapter, I can use it in a regular sd slot of a computer. Currently, she has a 2gb card installed, but I will need to check the specifications of the phone to see if it can take one with a higher capacity. Since this is the older version of the phone (the 3g Dash will not work with Mobile Speak), I'm not sure of the version of either the operating system or the screen reader, nor if they can be upgraded. But at least, I can get some hands on experience with both, learn what to expect on a phone with a built-in qwerty keyboard, and so on. We agreed that, when my friend comes over, he will bring the phone for me to try out. If I like it, I will give him $75, which he will give to her. If not, he'll just take it back and give it to her, with no hard feelings. Either way, since it has wifi, and since Mobile Speak was installed on it using the phone method, and not her phone number, I can use it without a sim card in it, meaning that I can keep mine in the Motofone F3 for calls and whatnot.
Well, I'll say 75 dollars won't be much of a loss for you to learn that we here have given you sound acvice.
We said the internet worked, but not well.
Enjoy. Smile.
It be worth 75 dollars however. Limited, but something to play with.
Oh, and do me a favor.
Once you have the phone, come back and tell us about your experience.
If I don't like it, the phone goes back, with no money lost. So really, it's a good deal. But as you said, $75 is not a lot if it works for me.
It isn't a lot if it only works some.
You'll get to understand, and actually use one for yourself.
You'll knot know how to use it fully in a short time.
I forgot to say.
One of the reasons you'll not get the full experience in a small amount of time, is you'll want to connect it to your cellular services and such.
I don't know, but maybe she'll let you do all this to try it out?
So, paying the 75 dollars gets you full access.
Actually, she is willing to let me have it for about two weeks before even giving her money, but I don't think that's fair to her. I was the one who limited myself to a day. She can no longer use the phone with TMobile, since they changed their card size, so it's just sitting there, collecting dust. As I said earlier, I am on a family plan, and I think it's unlimited. But really, my main goal is to be able to use wifi. If I can try the network, that will be interesting, but it is not a necessity. Of course, I will not be an expert in the phone in a few short hours, but I can get a feel for it and at least decide if it's something that I want to pursue.
Come back and say what you think.
But, you can't ask questions as to, how can I, or why doesn't. Okay?
I say that seriously.
We've explain this already, and you won't be able to fix the problems due to the same thing she is experiencing. Change.
Actually, she called me today and said that she played with the phone last night. She was able to use Facebook, read posts, and post to her own wall! So that part, at least, won't cause me any problems. *smile*
Smile. Go. Pay the 75 and keep it and see.
I'm interested.
What are you going to do when it breaks three years from now and you can't get another one like it? This is why you should force your self to give newer technology a fair chance so you don't get completely left behind.
Normally, I would say "I'll go to Ebay and get another". But if I like it that much, I'll consider investing in Mobile Speak, and simply register it to my phone number, not the phone. For now, though, I must try it out. I should be able to do so, not this coming week, but the next one. As for new technology, all I really wanted was a mini computer. I have a good phone if that's what I need. So I don't need to worry about iPhones, Androids, etc. I will either use Windows or Linux.
Not even 3 years.
This phone is already dated, so you've got battery, conection, and other issues, because the software can't be updated on it.
That is why I feel it is worth the $75, because it be good for her to use it.
Sort of like buying a wireless Helicopter.
It is a toy, something to play with. Smile.
Personally, if I wanted to see how it worked, I'd buy it flat out.
I'd not care about the rest.
My expectations would be different, but that still wouldn't matter.
Fair point, I bought a $99 Android tablet from China and lets just say it was a learning experience about cheep electronics although not one I regret since I knew going in it would most likely end poorly.
Same here. I am trying to keep my expectations low, so that, if it doesn't work out for me, I won't be disappointed.
I wouldn't bother. its not worth it.
T-Mobile Dash was slow with Mobile Speak on it 3 years ago. I gave mine to the Wife 2 years ago after resetting it -- She not needing MobileSpeak it went a lot faster.
The web is slow and clumsy on it. But, have at it, it's good for what it does. Services like MSN Messenger don't exist anymore and that was really a big one for a lot of peple on those devices.
The battery in the Dash is good, if you buy the bigger one. Anyway there's stuff on the web about that phone you can probably find. It was really popular for heavy data users. You couldn't very well cut, copy and paste on that thing, though, something I found quite troublesome when doing emails with it.
At the risk of resurrecting a dead thread (I'll leave my cynical responses about "resurrecting dead technology" at the door, but that's only because they're not really fully formed), I just dug up a ... I think CNET review? ... on the T-Mobile Dash, and they seemed to indicate that Office documents could only be viewed and not edited. Now, it's been a while since I've even touched Windows Mobile (back when I left Microsoft's mothership in Redmond), so I don't even know if that functionality is or isn't accessible, or is or isn't provided by a third party (which pretty much equates with "not accessible", since third party vendors of that era did love using custom controls).
Ah, those were the days—when you had to fight to get your GPS and mobile Web browsing to work. Like a savage. Sorry, guess I let a little cynicism slip out after all. Just sort of comparing how that tech worked and how the present day technology works when your aim is finding your way around midtown Manhattan.
I have had the Dash since Wednesday, and already am having an adventure with it. My overall impression is that it is a decent little machine for what it does. I am not expecting full computer functionality, especially with such low ram and only a 2gb sd card. The keyboard is usable, but only with one hand at a time. I was expecting something more like the keys on the Language Master, but these are far smaller. Still, I can feel when they are being pressed. The power button can be annoying, as it is not a regular button, and unfortunately, the volume is one of those touchstrips like I had on the Elitebook, which drives me crazy! Thankfully, I can control the volume via the menus, and the phone vibrates when it's turned on or off. Windows Mobile itself seems relatively easy to use, though there are no shortcuts to things, as with XP. Everything must be done via menus, it seems. But the layout is straight forward and there are no complicated routines for doing simple things, as with the Android. I didn't try Word, but I did open Notepad, and it is fully accessible and allows me to save my work.
Now for the bad. No matter what I did, I couldn't use my wifi. I tried everything, including changing various settings in the phone. Usually, it says my connection is firewalled. I think I did get it to say connected once, and it even gave me mbps and so on, but I still couldn't load any pages with Internet Explorer. Oddly enough, the wifi on my netbook also stopped working, all day yesterday, until I reinstalled the drivers! But it wouldn't show any networks at all, let alone connect to them! The Thinkpad remained firmly connected throughout all of this. But back to the Dash. I tried connecting to the insecure network at the New Jersey Foundation for the Blind on Thursday. That didn't work either, but I didn't have much time to play with it there, so that might still be doable. In the meantime, I installed my sim card. Once I made sure that the phone feature was on, it showed me as being connected. So I opened Internet Explorer, and it still wouldn't load any sites. I tried several, but each time, I got an error.
While at the NJFFB, the phone itself was acting strangely, turning on and off, but it eventually sorted itself out. Now, it started again, and despite removing both the battery and the sd card, I can't get it to return to normal. According to Mom, it's turning on, vibrating, showing TMobile and Windows Mobile, then shutting off and repeating the cycle. Needless to say, I reinstalled my sim card in my old phone. I found this link, with an answer, directly from Microsoft. They say to do a cold reset, and warn that I'll lose all of my data. Mobile Speak is installed on the sd card, so as long as I remove that before doing the reset, will it still work?
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/mobiledevices/forum/mdaccessories/my-t-mobile-dash-keeps-turning-on-and-off/5bf5e34a-2ae5-4bf3-a87a-fa758e7f1e6d?auth=1
In short, I am still excited about this phone, and still want to give Windows Mobile a chance. Honestly, if I don't, I have very few options, except a Sony Veio UX, an OQO, , a netbook, or another Thinkpad. The type of computer that I want just doesn't appear to exist, and honestly, I have no idea why! I'm not asking for something totally impossible, just a small computer with a built-in keyboard, wifi, 1-2gb of ram (I doubt they could handle 4gb), and if nothing else, usb or sd, so that I can expand the disk space, since the built-in hard drives are usually not that large. Anything between 60-160gb should be fine.
As for GPS, it's certainly a feature that I want to try, but that's not why I bought this phone. If I really want a good GPS device, I'll get the Kapten Plus, or whichever version is the latest one.
Yes, it does. Their are several computers just like you want. Smile.
Of course, their new, so run Windows 7 and above, but they have them.
I can tolerate windows 7, but that's as far as I go. I also prefer the 32-bit version whenever possible. If these computers exist, I would really like to find more information on them. I've searched for hours on Google and couldn't find anything.
Dell has an 11 inch.
Lenovo also has one.
Look directly on their websites.
They are not cheap, because you are asking for a small computer, but they are available.
One I posted here doesn't have a keyboard, but is so small adding a Bluetooth keyboard isn't much.
Dell even has 2 in one models with 11 inch screens for 329.
They run Windows 10, but that's no issue.
For that large of a screen, I could just get either a regular 12 inch Thinkpad X220, one of their netbook-like X100e-120-130 models, or an Aspire One D270. When I said small, I was thinking 10 or less, ideally 8 or less. Those are UMPCS, Micro PCS, etc. This is more like what I had in mind.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Vaio_UX_Micro_PC
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OQO
And in this post, you did read about the one I posted that is as small as a thumb drive, correct?
No, it has no keyboard, and you need a monitor if you need to see it, but you don't.
A small Bluetooth keyboard, and your thumb drive computer is as small as a micro computer, is it not?
It cost 179 I believe, but I posted all that info right here in this post.
The price is excellent, but you said it runs Windows 8, so that one is out. I also don't use bluetooth keyboards, unless absolutely necessary. If anything, I would use a usb one. Plus, if I ever do have a problem with it, I doubt it would connect to a regular monitor like I have, and I would need to go up into the attic to find one anyway. All of this leads me back to where I started, which is to say that I cannot find a computer with the specifications that I am seeking.
Runs Windows 10 now, and that's easy to use like Windows 7, even easier.
It can connect to a TV even. The only reason you'd need a monitor is to get help with it.
It has several ways to do that.
Amazon shows several small computers.
This one can be given an extra GB, and again will run Windows 10.
Product Details
HP Mini 1000 Notebook (Intel Atom Processor N270 1.60GHz, 10.2" LED Brightview Infinity Display, 1GB DDR2 RAM,...
by HP
Smile.
But, okay, you won't find one exactly like you wish unless you go new.
*smile* For a netbook, that's very old. The N270 was the first processor used on those, and is single core. If I get something with an Atom processor, I want N550, N570, or N2600/2800. , as all are at least dual core. The new ones all seem to be sticks, not full computers in the sense of having things built-in. I am looking for a clamshell, a slider, or at least something that doesn't require basic things to be external in order to work. As for larger machines, I am looking at some X120Es on Ebay right now. They have a few X220s as well, but that's hardly what I mean by mobile.
I honestly wonder if you'll ever be happy with anything. people are giving you good suggestions and you just shoot them down saying they don't meet what you desire when that is way out of date for any good these days.
I just want a computer that's smaller than 10 inches, with a built-in screen and keyboard, unless it's something for the blind, in which case, a screen isn't necessary. I didn't think it would be this difficult to find one!
I rediscovered this the other day, but can't find one being sold. Still, they did mention a few other UMPCs here.
http://www.pocketables.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8969
But back to the Dash. Can I just do a reset without losing anything from Mobile Speak?
Its not difficult to find. I've given you some that don't even have screens, and meet your specs accept for a keyboard.
With the Lenovo, you could keep it in your pocket and just have the Bluetooth keyboard.
So, in practice, you just have something small with keyboard.
I remember when you were looking before, and I gave you exactly what you wanted.
You purchased the same brand, but it didn't have as much power as the one I offered.
You hated it only because it had Windows 8.1, but it fit your specs perfectly.
An 11 inch screen. Now you are looking for under 10 inches.
Why?
The last one I gave you is not a netbook, it's actually a regular laptop, because it has a better processor then they did, and has an SSD.
It's 10.2 inches. You'll never measure that, so.
They have some Android based computers, but you won't be able to handle that, so these won't due.
The phone experience, I do thank you for telling about, because I felt you'd run in to these issues.
So, on this topic, I'm out. Smile.
While that's not exactly what I want, I would still consider it. My only two problems with that are that I have no monitor available if I ever needed sighted assistance, and it runs Windows 8.1. I want something with XP, 7, or possibly Linux. The Asus was, in essence, a very nice machine. But it couldn't be downgraded, which was its major flaw for me. I have an idea of what I want in an 11 or 10 inch screen, so am satisfied there. I would buy the Lenovo Thinkpad X130E, or the Acer D270, respectively. If I wanted a 12 inch laptop, I would buy the Thinkpad X220I.
But all along, I've wanted a smaller machine, which is why I started that long ago thread on palmtops, handhelds, etc. Netbooks and similar laptops are great, and they are light enough for my daily needs. But I want something that is truly small and portable for going out, doing light tasks, etc., which is why I decided to try the Dash and Windows Mobile. I am still not giving up on it, and will see what happens once I pass this hurdle.
You will lose everything including MobileSpeak if yu do a reset. MobileSpeak is not part of the operating system and so isn't stored as part of the burnable flash rom for resetting. You're not going to get those of us technically literate enough to know better, to tell you what you want to hear. Older technology doesn't do what the newer stuff does, even and especially regarding accessibility.
But here's the thing. In this case, Mobile Speak was installed on the sd card, not in the phone itself. Does that make a difference, or are there certain registry files that are still stored on the machine? I really think that resetting is the only way to solve this problem, but I'm afraid of doing it if the screen reader will be lost.
Leo and all the others are right. Your expectations of a computer or mobile device are not realistic for this day and age. To put this in Star Wars terminology, it's as if someone froze you in carbonite sometime back in, say, 2006 or 2007 and you are just now waking up and wanting a device that meets the standards and specs for what a computer or mobile device was back then. But 8 or 9 years have passed, and technology has moved so rapidly that something you're looking for just isn't going to be workable. What worked then may not necessarily work now due to advances in hardware, wireless technology, DNS and other factors. Put quite simply to get something that is workable you are either going to have to a. have a good look at the kind of devices available out there and make an informed decision based on that information, or b. Buy something off Ebay that's like 10 years old and have nothing but frustration. and what if said device off Ebay goes tits up? You aren't going to even be able to get it fixed, you'll be stuck with a paperweight. So bring your specs up-to-date, and save money for something that's workable today. For a computer I'm using something that is a few years old but still works very well. The processor won't let me install something like Windows 8.1 or Windows 10 on it, but then again I'm not quite ready to make that jump just yet. What I have works just fine for me. The difference is, when I get a new computer, I'll do my homework and make a decision based on current specs. Asking for something with 9 or 10 year old technology like this is just asking for frustration, no matter how you slice it.
My Thinkpad X60 is from 2006 and works perfectly. It's speedy and does everything that I want it to do, and with the docking station, it has everything I want in a desktop replacement. The only thing it lacks is a webcam (I have a small external one), and the only reason I'm even looking for anything else is that I want something smaller and lighter. But unless I get a 220I, my X60 will be my go-to computer for serious work, including scanning, printing, and embossing. What I'm looking for now is something with decent battery life that I can throw in a bag, or even in my pocket, when I go out, or keep on my lap when I'm outside.
Resetting won't change the products abilities. Sorry.
Next, you most likely will lose the speech softwears key, so it will only run as a demo.
Two days ago, I plugged it in and turned it on, just to see what would happen. It actually started up correctly! I have been able to use it ever since then, but I still cannot get it to work with the internet. I connected at the NJFFB, and it showed me the speed and said that it was connected. But again, when I opened internet explorer and tried several sites, it said "the page cannot be found". I want to try the other features and programs that it offers, buresolve this issue.
Today, I decided to go to Ebay and see what umpcs they had. I found a Viliv N5, and while researching it, I came across this review.
http://www.pocketables.com/2010/06/review-viliv-n5.html
And later, this preview, which mentioned other similar models.
http://www.pocketables.com/2010/01/viliv-n5-looks-like-yet-another-winner.html
When reading the url of the site, I was pleasantly surprised to see that it dealt exclusively with small devices. After several hours of skimming through pages on tablets and whatnot (
even under the umpc category), I eventually struck gold, and started creating a whole list of umpcs and mids! I still don't know what the difference is between the two designations, but the important thing is that the type of machine that I am seeking does exist, and there are several out there! Granted, I generally need to get something from 2011 or earlier, but that doesn't bother me. Since I started this thread asking about phones, it is worth noting that I actually found several of these that combine a mobile phone with a full version of Windows, usually XP or 7, and one combines 7 and Symbian! So even that is possible to find!
Maybe...just maybe...certain people will stop being so stubborn, and wasting their money on useless technology. Get yourself a computer that will last for years no matter the size, and save yourself the frustration and money.
I don't even know why you all even bother posting to this useless board when she clearly is going to do whatever she wants in the first place.
Or, should I say...get yourself current technology. An iPhone or an Android. Plus, that computer with Windows 8.1 or better. I saw your post on your hard drive. That is going to be the lastof your concerns if a hacker takes over your stuff anyways.
I have said many times that I have no interest in anything Apple, due to their ridiculous prices and proprietary everything, nor anything Android due to having to use the touchscreen for almost everything, including basic screen reader settings. Windows 8.1 was a nightmare. I can't speak for 10, as I have never tried it. For now, I will use full Windows (be it XP or 7), Windows Mobile, or Linux. I have already narrowed down three choices for 10.1 to 12.1 inch computers, so that's not really an issue. This post was about small computers, especially phones. Today, I will see if I can figure out why the internet is not working on the Dash. Everything else does.
Was this M5 actually marketed, how are you going to use it?
It has Windows 7 starter, 1GB ram, and a **touch screen?**
Really? Smile.
Has a keyboard too, but as far as I know, and I could be wrong, Microsoft didn’t have touch capability until recently?
What screen reader would run here?
We've explained why the internet isn't working, but soon as you learn different please post. I'm interested.
Yes, you can find several 10 to 12 inch screen computers, I've said so many times.
You want smaller, so that means a tablit, or a Android, or Apple Phone.
Chrome books are smaller, but we can't use them.
Yes, the N5 was marketed, and one is available on EBay right now. The touch on that is resistive, so works with a stylus. But as you said, it also has a built-in keyboard, though to be fair, the layout is a bit strange on this particular model. Others, including those from different brands, might be more standard.
Actually, I did find something quite interesting about the Dash here. I think I'll try changing the wlan settings, and if that doesn't work, I'll try router settings, though that still doesn't explain why it wouldn't work with the open network at the NJFFB.
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/mobiledevices/forum/mdaccessories/wifi-connection-problems-tmobile-dash/2fc0587c-3703-41bc-b6f3-3774073ffc98
No, smaller doesn't have to mean tablet, Android, or Apple, especially with the machines I've found at pocketables. I just need to narrow down my choices and then look on Ebay. But to be fair, even though they usually have everything, the models that I've tried either aren't there (no mbooks, nothing by kohjinsha, no LifeBook UH900)), or they're extremely expensive (Sony Vaio UX, OQO, and some Vilivs). That said, while I wasn't planning on it, if the machine is in truly good condition, I am willing to pay $300 to $400 for one, assuming I have the money at the time. But once the price goes passed that (I've seen some for over $800), , it's way out of my price range! Fortunately, I've found some for under $350, so I will focus on those for now. Since you mentioned touch on 7, I figured I would show you a touch device for XP that is still being sold. In keeping with the phone portion of this thread, it also has 3g capability.
http://www.dynamism.com/top-notebooks/viliv-s5-premium.shtml
But after reading more about it, I can safely remove it from my list of possible options. While I am intrigued by the idea of a haptic touchscreen, again, I prefer a real keyboard. But I can always use a usb one if necessary. The real problem that I have here is the lack of a webcam, and even more unbelievable, a microphone!
http://www.pocketables.com/2009/04/review-viliv-s5-premium.html
As for Chrome books, they do have a screen reader, as I remember reading a tutorial for using it. But it can't handle Greek, to my knowledge, and while someone told me that it is possible to either store files on it or to save them to a thumb drive, that opperating system was built with a focus on doing things in the cloud, which I do not use. I do most things online, but when it comes to files, they stay in my machine and on my drives.
Chrome books aren't accessible screen reader, or not.
The reason stuff is stored in the cloud is due to the small on board storage.
How are you going to use this M5? You didn't answer that question?
Sorry. Basically, just like I use most of my machines, with the exception of ocr scanning, embossing, and printing, which I only do on desktops or laptops that remain on my desk. I'll browse the net with Firefox (usually GMail, Facebook, Youtube, The Zone, and an occasional news or shopping site_, use Wordpad for reading and writing documents, Doxilion or an online service to convert pdfs to rtfs if necessary, and occasionally use the calculator, CCleaner, and possibly Revo Uninstaller, though that one might not be an issue if the new programs that I try are portable. Youtube is not necessary, and neither are Skype, Recordpad, Debut Video Capture, or Samnet, but it would be nice if I could use them as well. Of course, on a phone, even the things I mentioned as definites might be limited. But since these machines use full-blown versions of Windows, I can multitask and use all the programs mentioned.
No, sorry. I mean, what screen reader?
It has Windows starter, and 1GB memory?
NVDA. That's really all I ever use.
I just found another thread with people having the same problem. Apparently, it's quite common.
http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php/1111203-Can-t-use-WiFi-Connection-on-Tmobile-Dash-w-5-99-internet-access-please-help
I'm looking for the actual wireless settings. I don't think they mean the ones that I used to set up my actual network. Apparently, there is also something in Internet Explorer. If nothing else, I'll try some of the other programs on the phone, as I want to see how they work. It may still prove to be a useful device for me, but this internet issue is really annoying.
Success! I really wanted to post this on the Dash, but I literally just got on the internet a few minutes ago and am still learning how to use Mobile Speak. I did, however, successfully load CNN (it was in favourites) and then made my way here! I just need to figure out how to navigate pages, enter information into username and password fields, etc. But it's working! All it took was for me to change the power setting under wifi to best performance!
These days, no one, should be using anything with XP on it. End of story.
I use what works for me and also take necessary precautions. I can and do use Windows 7, but I prefer the way XP is set up. It's simple and easy to understand, so I will continue using it until it literally no longer does what I want it to do.
Many feel that way.
I wonder what will happen as Windows 10 comes on board as to XP's usuability.
Many are just hanging on.
Also, on XP. It is fine if personal people continue to use it, but I get uptight when businesses continue that are suppose to be keeping my records and such.
Half a sec. How are Chromebooks not accessible? I have one (mostly as a curiosity and occasionally because a screen reader that can interface directly with the browser's object model is more able to interact with certain sites).
I shouldn't say not accessible, but not good, not like a PC or Mac where you can access all things.
*hits the like butten on James post*
"you can not connect your thum drive to a phone." This is not true with android. You can get a durt cheep USB to Many USB adapter from amazon same advice applies to portible hardrives. Also, Google's TalkBack has come along long way sense Tiff tried it on a nexus7 running KitKat. No more circle menus to contend with and both local and global context menus can be assigned to swipe up and swipe down. for a foot note, a lot of the S6 features can be found in the note 4 and note 3 which run lollipop. Lastly, there is a new screen reader called shine plus, so there you have it, android has two screen readers actively being developed along with Galaxy S6 and S6 Edge Voice Reader used to be called Galaxy TalkBack. Lastly, Tiff your holding on to the past so tightly there is no way to see what's in front of you. Keyboard support has grately improved sense you last dusted of your nexus7. So if figure this post is for those who want to try an android device because Tiff will just go and argue her hold tiresome points and live with the old bones of tech that have sense been executed.
Eleni. And if this new screen reader will allow me to do things entirely from the keyboard, I will consider it. If not, then while I am glad that Android has come a long way, the fact that a touchscreen is still required means that I really have no interest in it, other than as a curiosity.
So, this is an honest question, and not a troll one.
How do you plan on functioning 5 to 10 years down the road, when none of your current technology works? Even windows seven won't be supported much past 2020, and the OS you're on now is the internets version of a woman walking threw the ghetto with a sign saying "please drug and rape me." The internet will move on, skype and other apps will move on... Eventually you're going to have to face the music.
How will you do it?
With the release of Windows 10, she may have to as you say face the music shorter, maybe a year or 2.
Even for users that run Windows 7, things on that OS will be changed so all are compatible across the board.
I think for this reason, Microsoft is not only making the new OS free, but pushing businesses to change.
They tried to get them to do so with Windows XP due to security issues, but many refused, and are facing problems now.
For fooling around, older technology is fine, but when you really need to do something, and especially if you are blind, in my opinion, staying as up to date as possible just makes things work better.
Sure, you have a learning curve, but if you need technology to run your day to day life, this is something you should want to do, learn.
For example, I can't buy things from specific places online without the latest programs. I have tested, and I simply am missing features.
My bank requires the latest programs to work correctly, so if I'm going to do my personal banking online, I need updated software, and a screen reader that can support it.
I guess it depends on what you expect from your technology.
Honestly, that is a very good question. The only options I can think of are to switch to Linux, to find something that operates strictly by voice commands, or to stop using the computer entirely. Of course, that last option is not realistic for many reasons, not the least of which are that this is how I shop, pay bills (though that's automatic), and read the news from Greece! So I am left with the first two. I haven't heard of Linux using nonsense like touchscreens, ribbons, etc. so that may be an option, though it does come with its own set of learning curves, including downloading programs.
I actually received my X120E on Monday. Explorer++ and BabelPad go a long way toward making 7 usable. The first provides a much cleaner interface than the built-in Windows Explorer, and the second takes care of the issue of ribbons. That last really worried me, because I tried everything to take ownership of Wordpad.exe and Wordpad.exe.mui, using both a registry script and manually, and nothing worked! I have done this before, on other machines, but sometimes, I guess it just doesn't work. For the record, I would like to get rid of this permission nonsense. I don't often have to deal with it, but when I do, it's extremely annoying! At any rate, the only real problem that I have with BabelPad is that NVDA doesn't read when I select things to delete,etc. I would have stayed with Jart, but it can't handle Greek properly, and that's essential for me! I also like how Lenovo created a nice folder, called X120E, with shortcuts to essentials like My Documents, My Music, etc., so that I didn't have to deal with libraries and the aforementioned permissions. That said, I really enjoy using portable aps, and have decided to do so as much as possible. As a result, most of my programs will have their own subfolders, inside a main folder, so they can be easily accessed and deleted, if necessary.
As for learning, I have enough to keep me busy, with studying everything I can about Hellenic culture and history, from ancient times through the present, plus two forms of the modern language. When I turn on my computer, I want it to work. I may occasionally be interested in how things are done, but ultimately, unless it's some kind of pet project, I don't want to reinvent the wheel just to do simple things. I buy things online all the time and have never run into a problem due to the programs I use. But to be fair, even on XP, I always use the latest versions of Firefox and NVDA. Perhaps, if I used the built-in Internet Explorer (which I don't), it wouldn't work. Usually, all I use is Facebook, a few news sites, GMail, Iherb, Amazon, Paypal, Youtube, other various sites that I come across while researching things, the Zone, Samnet, Dreamwidth, and Scribd. The last four are extremely rare when compared with the others.
I tried several programs, including Metapad, aedit, and LibreOffice, but all gave me problems. Metapad was very nice, but only worked with txt files. AEdit worked with rtf files, and had a similar, accessible interface, but for some reason, when I associated rtf with it and then tried to open files, it wouldn't work, even though I could open them from the program itself. LibreWriter, from Libreoffice, would often give me errors after associating rtf and txt with it, and when it did start, as I clicked on a given file, it took forever! Finally, I read that I could take ownership of my entire drive, which I did, using the Take Ownership script. I am now happily running a ribbon-free version of Wordpad in 7! So now, I can play with Windows Mobile again. To be honest,this is such an old version of Mobile Speak (2.something_ and a slightly older version of Windows Mobile (6.1), that I really feel as if I am missing out on new and better features, etc. But Mom told me yesterday that she actually has a phone with a keyboard in it! I am anxious to see it and to learn what operating system it runs. If Symbian, than I can try a demo of Mobile Speak on it and compare the two systems. I just hope that the phone is running, or can run, the latest version of the operating system, so that I won't be in a similar situation. Then again, as long as they didn't change that much between versions, and as long as it's compatible with Mobile Speak, it will still allow me to at least learn the interface, so that I can determine whether or not I like it. It's just a shame that I can't find the demo for Windows Mobile.
At that time, they had lots of phones with keyboards.
You'll still have the same issues however, but again, playing with toys is your thing even if you can't do what is current.
I just found the Code Factory page of downloads. They have everything except Mobile Speak for Windows Mobile! But now I'm confused, since I specifically read that when you downloaded the demo, or even bought the product, it came with installers for both systems! So why are they specifically saying that this is only for Symbian?
http://www.codefactory.es/codefactorydownload/archive/
I got a chance to see the phones today, and the two with keyboards are the Nokea X2-01 and the Samsung Gravity TXT. The Nokea runs Symbian, but it's S40, not S60 or Nokea Bell. The Samsung runs SHP, and I'm not even sure what that operating system is, let alone if there is a screen reader for it. There is another X2on the market, which is an Android phone, but that doesn't have a keyboard. I actually just found something very interesting. It's a keyboard with a built-in computer inside of it, and no screen! The keyboard itself is even mechanical, like the Model M! Of course, the intention, for sighted users, is that they will plug a screen into it. But I wonder if this can be used without a monitor? The same holds true for Android sticks, which I didn't even know existed until now! I am guessing that a usb keyboard can be used with those. Basically, my question is can Android be used strictly from the keyboard? I asked this awhile ago, but as has been said, things have changed since I had my Nexus 7.
http://www.realtechtoday.com/gadgets/oneboard-pro-android-keyboard-with-built-in-computer/
Here are more phones with keyboards, some old and some new.
http://www.androidauthority.com/tag/qwerty/
If mainstream Android cannot be used in this way, is there a shell for the blind, similar to this? I have heard of Eyes Free, but I'm not sure if it's still being developed, nor if if it stictly keyboard-driven.
That last part didn't make much sense, as I forgot to include the link. I meant to ask is there something similar to the SpeakEasy, but made for Android? Note that, while they are discussing the full package, it is also possible to purchase just the software for a regular machine. I'm sure that most of us don't need this, but it might be good for someone who just lost his sight or who doesn't know much about computers.
http://www.ndu.com/
All new phones can be used with Bluetooth keyboards.
Android, iOS and Windows phones, tablets.
Yes, but can they used with keyboards to the extent that the touchscreen is never used? I know this is true with Apple, but am not sure about Android.
Yes.
http://www.android.com/
No Android 6. Lol
You are awear that Chrome books are controlled with keyboards, right?
Yes, but I am not sure if the built-in screen readercan handle Greek and works with ESpeak. Also, how can I save things to a thumb drive and on the computer? I don't use the cloud.
It is a different OS.
You just wanted to know if they were useable with keyboards.
You can save content, but you can't go from Android to Windows.
Smile.
Did you mean Android or Chrome, because I was able to easily switch from Android to Windows and back with my Nexus. If I can save content with Chrome, though, do you mean that I can't use my drive between a Chromebook and a regular Windows machine?
If I did want to use Android, I just found a solution, although it is extremely expensive.
http://www.claria-vision.com/en/blind-users
But here is what I was originally seking, and actually far more! This is a full package for the blind, using Android. They offer phones and tablets, but also sell the software separately for use on other Android devices. Under the Products page, they specifically say that all of the menus can be accessed via keyboard and also by voice! But to be fair, even their touchscreen interface is standardised, so that all menus and programs have the same feel. This package comes with Skype (not sure if that still works), e-mail, calendar, alarm, ocr, Notepad, voice memos, mp3 player, talking books and talking newspapers (not sure if applicable for America), gps, internet radio, BBC iPlayer, Freeview Digital TV, Youtube, rss reader, web browser, colour identifier, calculator, compass, and spirit level (for measuring angles)! It's still a bit expensive, but not as much as the first phone, and this really does seem like a full computing solution, which is far ore than I was hoping for in a phone! I just need to see if it is multilingual, and if they have a demo of it.
http://www.synapptic.com/synapptic-software.aspx
For now, just because it's cheaper, and because I am honestly curious, I am going to investigate Symbian. I can easily buy one of those phones and try a demo of Mobile Speak, and possibly Talks, or the free Nokia screen reader.
No, you didn't.
You didn't take files that were created on an Android system, and read, edit, and such and use them on Windows.
I know that I definitely was able to transfer files to and delete them from the Nexus, using my computer and usb cable. But I can't remember whether or not any of them were created on the Nexus. Can it handle rtf and txt files? If not, what formats does it use and can they be converted to standard Windows ones? Given the topic, does the same hold true with Symbian?
Sure, you can back them up and such things, because the android phone, or tablet is like a second drive.
However, you can't read them and such.
I don't think I'm doing a good job explaining.
I don't know what Android file types are.
Pictures, and music can be moved however.
It depends.
MP3's and MPEG or whatever picture/music formats are the same cross.
On Android, you can install several apps to handle txt and rtf files. You can create or edit the files on android and then access these files with Windows when you connect the phone to Windows. Those rtf and txt files will be handled properly by programs like WordPad and Notepad on Windows. If you use Dropbox or other cloud services, you can create a rtf or txt file, share it to DropBox and you can access the file from Dropbox on Windows without physically connecting the phone or tablet to your computers.
You can also copy files that you've created on Windows to the Android device and access it from there. Of course, you must install these apps from the Play Store but there are quite a number of them, from those that just handles reading and those that allows editing as well. I find most of this apps are very accessible and very simple to use.
This is true for other file formats like mp3, wav, mp4 for media, to name a few. These media formats will usually be handled by the pre-installed apps on the phone. If you read ebooks, there are some simple book readers that you can read pdf or epub files with but that is strictly reading.
For Microsoft Word documents like .doc or .docx, the Microsoft Word app is released in the Play Store now but it doesn't seemed to be fully accessible. There is a possibility that you can find a third-party app to handle such formats if you need to.
Also, with regards to the previous posts about using Android with just a Bluetooth keyboard, I think it is possible. With the latest Talkback, most of the gestures that we performed on the touchscreen can be replicated by keyboard shortcuts. I haven't actually tried to use my phone with just a Bluetooth keyboard but I did try out some of the keyboard shortcuts and they work very well. You can even configure the keystrokes to those of your liking if you find the existing keystrokes are too complicated or not to your liking.
Hope that helps.
You are talking about newer versions.
Things are improving.
However, backn she's talking, it wasn't happening.
I don't mind a newer version, if it actually does what I want. I thought it was the opposite, and that the older ones could strictly use the keyboard, whereas this would not be possible with the new ones. The thig that I hated about Talkback, and again, this is going back to Jelly Bean and Kit Kat, is all the gestures. One of the things that I like about this Synapptic softare is that even their touchscreen use seems easy. You slide your finger around the screen, and when you want to activate something, you remove your finger. The program also allows for voice and keyboard control, which are excellent bonuses!
My next concern with Android has to do with switching between English and Greek keyboards and saving and reading unicode texts. This will be essential for me, as I often switch languages on Facebook and in my documents. I wouldn't really expect this from an older phone, though I know some of the synthesizers, like Loquendo, can at least handle monotonic. To be fair, though, I don't know of any synthesizer, except my modified version of ESpeak that can truly handle polytonic. In any case, if I am going to spend hundreds of dollars on something like this, I need to ensure that it meets my needs. If it was cheaper, I would just use it for reading and writing things in English when I was going out.
If I can wait until the autumn, and if the price isn't enough to kill me, I may have a new, as in completely modern, phone to consider!
http://www.cheatsheet.com/gear-style/blackberrys-first-android-phone-what-you-need-to-know.html/?a=viewall
Whether or not I can use it with Synapptic, I don't know yet. If not, then I really should look into the keyboard shortcuts of Talkback, as well as the programs to convert between file formats. I know there are extremely Lollipop devices out there, and if I really wish to consider one, I may want to buy one of those before spending such a large amount of money. I also still want to at least play with Symbian, just to learn the interface and see what it has to offer. Certainly, that will be a cheaper option overall. But at least now I have three operating systems to consider.
I totally forgot about Mobile Accessibility, from Code Factory, who makes Mobile Speak. That leaves me with three screen reader options for Android. I'll need to compare all of these, in order to help me determine if this operating system is for me or not. One final question. Can it multitask like Windows XP and 7?
You can't run Mobile Speaks on Android.
Android has it's own screen reader.
Samsung's is the better right now for my money.
The S6.
are you sure mobile speak doesn't have some sort of something that can run on android that isn't sandboxed?
No. I was saying that Mobile Accessibility, an Android screen reader, is made by the same company that makes Mobile Speak.
http://codefactoryglobal.com/app-store/mobile-accessibility/#
Right now, I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars on something. If I get anything with Android, I just want to try it out and see how it has improved since the last time I used it. I don't want to spend more than $150, and I actually found some phones on Ebay for under $100, including shipping.
The problem with Android and older devices, is some won't run the latest version.
Next, Samsung has specificly tweaked it so it works better for the blind.
Not being mean, but if you continue to spend 100 here, 100 their, well, you could afford the best. Smile.
Next, you get a period of time to test it and can return it if it isn't working for you.
Next, you get tech support.
All I just said is mute, because I understand your motivation is not buying new products that work, but trying to make older tech do what you want.
This is your passion, or hobby.
and its impossible.
Hi.
Mobile accessibility for android is 2 products in 1.
The first part is a home screen which makes the phone interface look better.
There are 12 apps with in this home screen including phone, sms, calendar, web, notes etc.
Also you can make mobile accessibility to work as a stand alone screen reader for android like talkback but I think after version 4.1 the screen reader part doesn't work as expected and it crashes.
I bought mobile accessibility when I had my sony ericson xperia pro phone with a keyboard running android 4.04 but now that I have a nexus5 running android 5.1.1 with only a touch screen I don't need to use it at all.
I think mobile accessibility is a good solution for somebody who wants to use only the home screen part of it with the built in apps incite it. But if you want to explore android in full talkback is the best for now.
Also there is a version of espeak for android which works well for android versions above 4.0. It only costs 0.99 british pens and it speaks Greek.
The developer is very friendly. His name is Reece H. Dunn and you could ask him to include the politonic if you like.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.reecedunn.espeak
The free version of espeak by the eyes-free project is very out of date.
Hope it helps
Nikos
I'll jump back in here as an older time android user, you can can assign the global and local context menus to keyboard commands and change them for your on screen jesters. Lastly, voice stream is coming to android soon, its coming along nicely. My post is for any one who is curious and wants to try an android device. This years android lollipop ant your gran mothers android that you tried when I was using it like IOS users used there older IOS devices. Thing is I had to bolt it on or find apps to do what I could do easily with IOS. Those days are dead and gone. I am serious when I say if you are a IOS user then Samsung is the way to go if your a swiper. Not just the S6 line but the note 4 and s5 line has gotten its lollipop update. So both lines of devices work for VI users. The S6 line and now note 5 no longer have a Micro SD card slot or removal battery. So my note 4 will be the last Samsung device I will own unless
Samsung does a 180 and includes a Micro SD card slot.
Oh, forreal, to fix your post about older android devices, they will run lollipop but with a customize os and it takes futher knologe then tiff has about android to install a custom rom.
lol You poor fools...she's going to do what she wants, and waste your time and her money...
And, I completely agree with you Wayne. $100 there and $250 here...you can just get an iPhone with all of that money.
Yes, you can get an iPhone, but unless you're willing to really play around with it for more than a week and actually learn and get used to using the gestures, (which aren't that difficult to get the hang of), it's going to be pointless to get one.
Step in to an Apple store and they'll sit with you and show you how.
Samsung has included the SD slot on some of the S model line.
I think the S6 rugged has one now, but not the removalable battery.
For the record, it's Eleni. Thanks for answering my questions about Android. It seems that now, I really can use it strictly with the keyboard, and that it can, with extra programs installed, handle not only regular file formats, like txt, rtf, and mp3, but also Greek via ESpeak! This is actually looking promising. But I still fail to see why I need to spend over $200 on a device, when many brand new ones are being sold well under that price. As for Apple, I have stated many times why I won't use it. High price plus proprietary everything is a bad combination.
My answer to that statement is, if you spend $100 on several older devices, and you are still trying to get the results you want, but failing, if you spend over $200 on a new device, you'd get the results.
5 older devices has cost you more then one new device, and all you have is several devices that can only do limited things, but not one good device that can handle all your needs in one package.
But, again, I have come to understand, this is not actually what you are wanting.
What you want to do, or enjoy doing, is trying to get the most updated services from an outdated device.
This is a hobby.
File types are also changing, so if you regroup your older files in to the later formats, you have smoother operation.
I have always used txt, rtf, and occasionally doc, and all my music is saved as mp3s. All work fine, and I see no reason to change them, particularly since I use Windows XP and 7 as my primary operating systems. As I have said, if Android can do what I want and in a way that works for me, I will consider it as a viable system. I still have to find out about multitasking, but everything else seems doable. Now, I need to decide whether to get a cheap phone or tablet, just so that I can try out the new system, or to wait for that Android Blackberry with a keyboard. That actually sounds quite exciting and may be similar to what I was seeking all along in a small computer!
To return to the main topic of this thread for a moment, I just found an entire site dedicated to Symbian! Not only that, but software is still being made and updated for the operating system as well! It looks like this will be an excellent source of information.
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/
So it looks like this option is still on the table, as soon as I can resolve this screen reader issue! But as I have learned, it is far easier to find something for Symbian than for Windows Mobile, so it shouldn't take me too long to figure out something. In the meantime, if anyone has an accessible phone that he/she is willing to sell at a decent price, please comment here.
Maybe you should post on that board for advice?
search ebay for phones?
Yep. Let the searching commence! I just found the latest version of Mobile Speak at the Code Factory site, and it was free this time! I'm not sure whether it's a demo or the full version, but either way, it will enable me to try out the operating system.
http://codefactoryglobal.com/app-store/mobile-speak/
hit the brakes! BB's android device may note be paly store certified an come with google's talkback. Just giving you a heads up.
Great! This is two bad things at once! First, I just got an e-mail from Maxiaids, saying that Mobile Speak has been discontinued and is no longer in stock! I asked about it because they still appear to sell it. Needless to say, I am not happy! Now, I have to see exactly what's going on with the Symbian version that I downloaded. Even to use it as a demo, I still need to log into the Code Factory servers. Maybe, they made it freeware? At least, with Symbian, I can still look for Talks, or if the phone supports it, the Nokia screen reader, which was free from the beginning. I don't know of anything else that works with Windows Mobile.
Now, you're telling me that the one modern phone that I really wanted may not even have Talkback on it? Can it be downloaded and installed? I found a few Android phones under $150, and several under $100, but now, I have to see if they have Talkback! All of this so that I can have a small computer. *sigh*
I just went to the Nuance site and found a download page for Talks.
http://www.nuance.com/for-individuals/by-solution/talks-zooms/downloads/index.htm
It says that this is a free trial, but when I selected a phone, it sent me to a page with manuals and voices, but no actual Talks file! I also tried the "buy" link, but that led nowhere.
Then, I found a full package here!
http://www.visioncue.com/support/talks-downloads.html
Inside the release notes, I read this.
"As you all know, TALKS&ZOOMS is an application that operates on the Nokia/Symbian platform. In October 2012, the Nokia Belle Feature Pack 2, widely considered the last major update for Symbian, was released and the Symbian Signed program closed on January 1st 2014. Without further Symbian updates and the vital signing process, Nuance Communications regrettably cannot create further releases of the TALKS&ZOOMS application. Nuance Communications will however continue to support and champion TALKS&ZOOMS while it is still viable to do so and within the available technical options."
On the actual Talks page at Vision Cue, it says this.
http://www.visioncue.com/phone-accessibility/nuance-talks.html
"This information is for general interest and historical purposes. VisionCue no longer sells Talks since the demise of the Symbian operating system which was the platform for Talks."
So either this is a ten minute demo, or this is the full version, which would mean that I just saved several hundred dollars! I already have a few phones in mind, so this last part should be relatively easy.
Hi.
At the nuance website if you choose your phone model then you have a choice of languages and synthesizers.
For example for Greek there is only one option.
SIS Files (Vocalizer for Mobile Male)
This will give you the old Alexandros voice from vocalizer. I don't know why they didn't include Melina which I think is better.
If you download this zip file you will file 2 or 3 files insite.
The first one is the file for vocalizer which should be installed first.
Then the actual talks program which includes all languages.
During setup which by the way doesn't talk you will be asked if you want to choose a language or to choose automatic which will install all available languages and it will swich if the phone language change.
Obviously you will need to install a speetch language for each of the languages you are willing to use.
For example you could have one English and one Greek voice.
The other file in the zip you will download is the release notification for the current version of talks.
It is a word document and it explains what is new and some other information such as frequently asked questions.
If you are going to buy symbian I suggest a third edition phone which is faster and works better.
Second edition phones are slower, more difficult to find and not as good in performance.
The demo works for 10 minutes and then you will have to restart the phone for another 10.
You can request 10 day license through the talks menu.
It is very easy to use but you need a sim card in the phone because the phone will send an sms to the nuance servers and it will recieve the lisence code back through sms but everything is done automatically.
For a good talks dealer you can check out www.talknav.com
They are in the UK but you can buy online and recieve your code as soon as you buy.
They are very good.
I used the website from Cyprus with no problems.
But as others said I think a current android phone is a better solution.
Nikos
Thanks for the site. There are no actual product pages there, though each main company page I explored referenced them. When I went to the "Buy" link, I read this.
"TalkNav is a UK dealer of Nuance Products. In order to purchase Nuance products from TalkNav you must be situated within the UK."
But it doesn't say the same for Code Factory products. This is all very confusing. Usually, when products are discontinued, they're either offered as freeware or abandonware, or simply pulled from the catalogues of any stores which formerly sold them. I have heard that Code Factory is terrible at responding to e-mails, and that they shut down all of their e-mailing lists for users. I guess I can try contacting Nuance, and seeing if they respond, or if anyone has a phone that he/she is willing to sell. Thanks again for your help throughout this thread. *smile*
/me scratches my head.
Smile.
yikes. all this work just to get a phone that you like that has talks. Is it worth it? Is it really worth all the headache, time, hours, finding out you cant get it anywhere, and on and on it goes? is it really really worth it Eleni?
It all started because I wanted a small computer. Originally, a phone wasn't even part of my search. I wanted something that ran regular Windows, but that was smaller than a 10 inch netbook. I did find a few interesting machines, but the good ones usually start at $400 or more, sometimes going up to $800! Even then, I've never seen one with over 1gb of ram. So I decided to try phones. I had no idea it would be this difficult! Getting a phone, either on the Symbian or the Windows Mobile side is easy. I found several great ones for under $100, which was a plus. But finding screen reading software for them is almost impossible. I have better luck with DOS! Maybe, I should look for a Palmtop! haha
But to answer your question, if nothing else, I have certainly learned a lot, so I guess it was worth it from that angle. I am still curious as to whether I can get any of these readers to work, so that I can try out the operating systems. If not, I'll buy a regular phone that just makes calls. I found a few of those, even ones without cameras, texting, and such. I'm using a fairly basic one right now.
I could never go back to a phone like that ever again. the iPhone has been a blessing for me in a major major way.
John, she doesn't want that! lol
She wants her phone from the 90's...
Actually, a phone from the 90s would be great! I could get a large, simple one that just makes calls. My only problem would be ensuring that it works with TMobile. One advantage of using modern phones is that they work on different bands and whatnot, while the older ones may not provide as wide of a coverage.
T Mobile offers just a basic flip phone.
Samsung makes it.
It will be new, and has basic things, like an address book you can put phone number in.
You press send to make a call, end to hang up.
It has the regular keypad.
I had a Haven until Samsung discontinued it and it came with nuance. It wasn't the greatest, but it worked at the time. See if you can find something like that's still being produced. I highly doubt it though...
Don't even get me started on the Haven! I heard that, without any special software, it could be set up so that everything is spoken. But it doesn't work on TMobile, or I would have had one by now! *sigh*
Yes, you now can use an android from kitcat and up with a keyboard never needing to touch the screen. sit down because your not going to like what I have to say next. Be it IOS or android selection of games here is where it gets dicey. Try playing sixth sense on an IPhone with a keyboard!. Ant happening and try playing rappy tappy on android with a keyboard, again your stopped dead in your tracks. Are you finally getting the picture Tiff! android killed off phones like the gravity because most of main stream uses a touch screen. Its quicker, dictation is much better both in android and IOS. Again, no matter how many IOS devices or my beloved android platform I use my post just landed in a coffen dead on arrival. Your going to argue how your moble speak with its keyboard based device is somehow better then my nexus6 or sise IPhone 6. Ya, ya I had to go back to IOS because of a soon to be job offer. Ya, ya, sise, embarist smile, I actually like the IPhone 6 of all the IPhones. Kya leaving this post and hiding in a corner lol!.
Yes, you now can use an android from kitcat and up with a keyboard never needing to touch the screen. sit down because your not going to like what I have to say next. Be it IOS or android selection of games here is where it gets dicey. Try playing sixth sense on an IPhone with a keyboard!. Ant happening and try playing rappy tappy on android with a keyboard, again your stopped dead in your tracks. Are you finally getting the picture Tiff! android killed off phones like the gravity because most of main stream uses a touch screen. Its quicker, dictation is much better both in android and IOS. Again, no matter how many IOS devices or my beloved android platform I use my post just landed in a coffen dead on arrival. Your going to argue how your moble speak with its keyboard based device is somehow better then my nexus6 or sise IPhone 6. Ya, ya I had to go back to IOS because of a soon to be job offer. Ya, ya, sise, embarist smile, I actually like the IPhone 6 of all the IPhones. Kya leaving this post and hiding in a corner lol!.
Yes, you now can use an android from kitcat and up with a keyboard never needing to touch the screen. sit down because your not going to like what I have to say next. Be it IOS or android selection of games here is where it gets dicey. Try playing sixth sense on an IPhone with a keyboard!. Ant happening and try playing rappy tappy on android with a keyboard, again your stopped dead in your tracks. Are you finally getting the picture Tiff! android killed off phones like the gravity because most of main stream uses a touch screen. Its quicker, dictation is much better both in android and IOS. Again, no matter how many IOS devices or my beloved android platform I use my post just landed in a coffen dead on arrival. Your going to argue how your moble speak with its keyboard based device is somehow better then my nexus6 or sise IPhone 6. Ya, ya I had to go back to IOS because of a soon to be job offer. Ya, ya, sise, embarist smile, I actually like the IPhone 6 of all the IPhones. Kya leaving this post and hiding in a corner lol!.
If a device is running android yes you can install talkback, honestly Tiff to do so is above and beyond your android knowledge. To be fare its a little above mine, you have to tunnel into android using ADB or Android Debug bridge. Then push the .zip talkback file which will be older or if you know a friend who has the current talkback stable release to your device. Now a bit of good news I read from a link post by a member of the eyes-free list, BB's android wil have the play store and google apps pre-installed. That may very well include talkback. I am not going to hold my breath just yet.
Samsung as far as accessible devices running Android is kicking ass.
If this continues, then we have both Apple/Samsung to choose from.
That is great in my book.
starfly, This definitely makes things on the Android look better. I didn't realise that I could use Kit Cat, and thought I would need to go to Lollipop for all the keyboard shortcuts to work. I found a few keyboard phones with Kit Cat, and they can be upgraded to Lollipop once I get them, though it seems that this is not an automatic process, as with the Nexus. I couldn't care less about games. I like having them on the Dash, but they just provide a way to pass the time. Talkback sounds like it may be a problem, so I will check the phones I am considering to ensure that it's on there. If not, is there anyone, eiter here or in a store, who can help me install it? And please, the name is Eleni. If you (or anyone else here) want me to call you something different, let me know.
forereel, do you know if Samsung makes a phone with a keyboard? Also, is there such a thing as an Android netbook, or a tablet with a keyboard? It doesn't have to be a phone.
Sure.
I don't know how far you can upgrade the OS, but they have phones with them.
Samsung even has phones that have some speech onboard, like the Haven.
You need it to run on T-Mobile, so look for A T and T models.
Thinking about my reply, I didn't answer your question correctly actually.
Yes, Samsung has phones with keyboards, but for what I'm talking about, the access you get much like Apple, you need a new phone, like the Galaxy S6.
It is touch only, and you'd need a Bluetooth keyboard for keyboard control.
So they're out. At least, when it comes to Android. Thanks for saving me the hassle of looking into that.
For real, if you have the knowledge you can I'll grade it a android device that doesn't get
OEM updates via custom ROMs so doing so would take someone who knows how to install
custom ROM. If they don't do not let them touch your device they will and can break it
and then you have a paperweight and last, installing a custom mom is not for the faint of
heart but there are services that will upgrade your device if the community is supporting
scion mileage and Pac-Man ROM and others.